Summary

  • Nissan’s pride and denial hindered merger talks, sources say
  • Honda pushed Nissan for deeper cuts to jobs, factory capacity, sources say
  • Nissan unwilling to consider factory closures, sources say
  • Honda’s proposal to make Nissan a subsidiary caused tensions, sources say
  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    14 days ago

    And Honda was working on hydrogen nearly 30 years ago now

    Unless they have a fusion reactor they’re not telling us about, so that they can electrolyze water hydrogen is never going to be a viable power source. Currently all hydrogen is acquired through fracking, which makes the entire exercise somewhat pointless.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      14 days ago

      I think hydrogen has a future, but more for long haul trucking than personal cars. The general idea is to generate a ton of solar power during the day and use the excess to produce hydrogen, and then use the hydrogen to fuel heavy equipment, trucks, and cover for low solar production days.

      This solves many of the issues with hydrogen:

      • no need to transport hydrogen, just use it locally
      • wasting energy for production is fine because it would be wasted anyway
      • only used in heavy equipment, so no need to sell the public on it
      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        14 days ago

        That way though you would have to haul around the electrolyzing equipment with you which seems redundant and it’s pretty heavy. I’m not sure that would necessarily work.

        Also in that scenario you would have to keep the water on board so that you could electrolyze it again. That adds even more weight. A molecule of water weighs 18 times more than a single hydrogen atom so every single time you run this process your vehicle suddenly gets massively heavier.

      • Patch@feddit.uk
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        13 days ago

        Hydrogen remains a solution desperately in search of a problem.

        If your aim is to generate locally, why not just use batteries? They’re cheaper, more efficient, and more reliable. Why have the lossy and very high maintenance electrolysis and hydrogen storage/transfer process involved?

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          13 days ago

          Are they cheaper? Even over 1M miles or whatever a truck engine is expected to go? And for running a warehouse overnight? I find that hard to believe.

          But even if true, you need to take range into account. Hydrogen cars get better range than comparable BEVs, and that would surely add up for a truck hauling a massive load. And as hydrogen scales up, it’ll get cheaper. It’s currently a bit more expensive than gas (about 3-4x), but that’s with hydrogen transported from some plant somewhere. If it’s locally generated from solar, it’ll probably be quite a bit cheaper.

          • Patch@feddit.uk
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            13 days ago

            Are they cheaper? Even over 1M miles or whatever a truck engine is expected to go?

            Yes, significantly so. Hydrogen fuel cells have a much shorter lifespan and higher manufacturing/replacement cost than lithium ion batteries. The compressed gas tanks are also very expensive and have a limited lifespan (albeit a relatively long one, compared to the fuel cells).

            And as hydrogen scales up, it’ll get cheaper. It’s currently a bit more expensive than gas (about 3-4x), but that’s with hydrogen transported from some plant somewhere. If it’s locally generated from solar, it’ll probably be quite a bit cheaper.

            Market rate hydrogen is currently about as cheap as it’s possible to get, because it is almost exclusively from fossil fuel sources which are gradually winding down.

            Locally produced electrolysis hydrogen suffers from very low efficiency rates; about 2/3rds of the power used to produce the hydrogen is lost in the process. Assuming you don’t have an enormous overabundance of power being generated, it’s more efficient to store the power locally in batteries (which don’t have to be lithium ion if it’s for static storage; other chemistries become competitive if they don’t need to move around) than it is to store it as hydrogen. And if you’re generating a huge overabundance of power such that throwing 2/3rds of it away seems sensible, in most cases the question would be why you don’t make a grid connection and feed in anyway (extreme remote locations notwithstanding).

        • TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee
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          13 days ago

          Battery-powered vehicles require an unreasonable amount of water to control a fire. 1 burning Tesla needs 1 fire truck of water, so imagine what a bigger vehicle would need.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        14 days ago

        Because otherwise you’re spending more energy converting water into a hydrogen then you get back from turning hydrogen into water.

        You still do with Fusion power but at that point you have so much energy it doesn’t matter how inefficient it is. Seriously even using nuclear power it doesn’t work out as economically viable. It’s really a wasteful and inefficient process.