That’s the thing though: if you’re having trouble finding someone who wants to listen to you, the problem might possibly be you. let’s just say it’s not out of the realm of possibility. But if you are happy to sit there refusing therapy with circular logic: you’re your own problem and all this is is you’ve found a way to self sustain that cover and you’ve convinced yourself. Fair enough. That’s your decision,

therapy is really for those who are ready to admit they are unhappy with how things are(and willing to realize they play a part in their unhappiness) and more open to tearing down those old toxic behaviours to build something more engaging that might do better at relationships .

If you don’t see yourself in that description, then you’re right. Therapy would do nothing for you.

-plenty of men out there do planning

-going along with someone is not a lack of socializing it can be their way of supporting.

-In fact it’s probably better that a dude doesn’t take over on a woman doing it because that has been taught to be all sorts of sexist now. I know if it were me in the middle of organizing and some dude took over I’d be all sorts of pissed off.

-There is social aspect in video games too. In fact there is a large amount of social presence online. You also have wallflowers online but just saying, if someone is looking at their screen it doesn’t necessarily mean they are incapable of social ability. there’s actually a skill in online presence.

As is echoed a lot in this entire post of replies: therapy isn’t really mentioned here. And that might be a key when it comes to male mental and emotional health.

Interesting how you brought incels up here and how you think they are created from the apps.

There’s a huge portion of users that reach for such an app that may think ‘intimate relationships =happiness’ that require therapy to address why they are unhappy (and how they do relationships) before they should try a relationship (regardless of app).

While I don’t believe the apps are necessarily what is causing this problem (any user decides on their own whether they are ready to date regardless of mental and emotional capability prior to joining) It certainly doesn’t help the situation but makes the compound result much faster. EG: I’ve seen the ‘ghosting’ definition change a lot once dating apps came into play. It used to be when you have a legitimate relationship developed and one person nopes out of it without warning. It had a legitimate victim that’s left out of the cold when another person essentially wasted their time and had a very hefty amount of inconsideration. Now it’s used in a situation if a dude gave someone the jeeb vibes on first meet and got immediately blocked after the one date or even before it makes it to that point and then calls it ghosting. And before we go the route of “well how would he know if no one tells him his behaviour is weird” : dating isn’t a survey. victims of the creepy behaviour aren’t therapists and it’s not their job. They are just on there to date too. They just want to feel safe. Their job at most is themselves. It’s not to curate someone else to become dateable. Lots of unsafe topics about the dating apps on documentaries around so people aren’t going to take it on themselves to provide feedback such as “what you said was inappropriate” without that going sideways with aggression and feeling even more unsafe.

If this is actually feeling like it’s happening a lot, I’d say: close the dating app, find a therapist, talk about why you’re feeling lonely as the problem might be more local than it what is going on the dating app. Cuz the one person whose job it is to give feedback on how you’re doing especially in situations of a relationship with others is a therapist.

It’s like you say: the apps are there to make money. They aren’t there with legitimate concern for their users whether or not they are ready for going into the dating pool. But that said: it really isn’t on the dating apps to do all that either, that is a question the user should be taking on themselves before joining the app and expecting all the results. Sometimes it is on the user.

This might be regional too. 3rd places in some cities are promoted as a social norm compared to others. More of a ‘night life’ where as some cities is like you have nothing much to do but go out in nature. I think those areas are a heavier struggle than others when it comes to socializing

PSA To everybody else: that last sentence is a trap. Said famously before they yell “COMMUNIST” in your face should you suggest any working solutions currently in play anywhere else. Don’t fall for it. Just move on with a sense of relief you avoided the poop on the sidewalk today.

Yeah depending on where you are or how close you are to the US, the media really has an ability to centrist all stories and news as if it’s pertaining to America some how.

Counting someone else’s tragedy as a personal blessing AKA when the privileged make someone else’s tragedy about them.

“I’m so blessed” whilst looking upon someone who’s struggling with mental or physical issues/homeless. And they explain it as their way of having gratitude.

I’m all for the gratitude lists but it’s not meant to be another channel wax on the narcissism and quell esteem issues by comparing yourself to others. Need a benchmark to know you’re doing well? Compare yourself with where you were yesterday. Not where someone else is today.

Esteem boosts shouldn’t come at the cost of pulling attention from someone else’s tragedy to pat yourself on the back.

“Then don’t add to the mess” is my usual response,

I’ve had smoking friends who refuse to stand further from a doorway and blowing it in peoples faces with the “air is already polluted with cars” argument

Me:”then don’t add more!”

It’s a weak argument. One with the easiest hole to poke. Also great answer if you’re trying to filter out the idiots from your friends group.

No doubt a lot of this is proving to himself something after having is own ‘terrible father’(according to him that is)

Well that added fuck all to conversation.