• KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    guys, i think human society is just innately evil.

    Like i hate to break it to you, but conquest and war has existed for a long ass fucking time.

  • Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip
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    7 days ago

    Ye the world was a peaceful place before capitalism, there were no wars, no slaves and no …

    checks history books

    Oh no

    Oh no no no no

    • SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Scale. It’s about scale and centralization. Sure there were slaves but capitalism made more than ever in human history. Sure there were wars but capitalism made them bigger and further away from the rich nations committing them’s population.

      It’s about scale. It’s like comparing a single thief to a crime syndicate of organized thieves and saying “well there has always been thieving”

      Yes. But never with so much damage.

      • ByeBrie@lemmings.world
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        7 days ago

        So you know nothing about the extent of pre-industrial slavery? Because it dwarfs the tiny bit they bought over to the Americas.

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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        7 days ago

        Scale. It’s about scale and centralization. Sure there were slaves but capitalism made more than ever in human history.

        Depends on who you ask, and when, I guess. For instance, if you asked one of the nations conquered by the Mongols, they would’ve said that empire was the largest enslaver in history.

        The Mongol Empire established a massive international slave trade founded upon war captives enslaved during the Mongol conquests, which were distributed by market demand around the empire via a network of slave markets connected through the cities of the empire.

        Considering this was the largest contiguous empire in human history, the exploitation and damage was pretty extensive.

      • Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip
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        7 days ago

        Sure there were slaves but capitalism made more than ever in human history but capitalism made them bigger and further away from the rich nations committing them’s population

        Wouldn’t completely agree here. There has simply been a massive technological advancement if we compare, for example, the “norse raids” with “european raids”. Europeans could transport more and travel further. Also, there have been way more people alive if we compare those timeframes. Global population has grown steadily.

        Don’t get me wrong, capitalism certainly had a certain impact, but pretending like capitalism is the sole source is dishonest at best and stupid at worst. There have always been powerhungry people. Capitalism just gave everyone a chance to be power hungry instead of just the select few that were born into places of power.

        Something I’d also like you to keep in mind that every communist regime that wasn’t 50 people on a deserted island has resulted in a disaster for the population and surrounding countries. The soviet union has waged more than 15 offensive wars, for example georgia, poland, finland, iran, czech etc., which is almost as much as the US which has existed for like 250 years at this point. So pretending that communism is completely free of the things you criticize capitalism for is pretty dumb tbh.

  • madthumbs@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    Genocides, slavery, war - that’s literally instructed in the Judaic religious texts. Correlation does not mean causation.

  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    Due to Ukrainian anti-soviet (nazi) influence in 1990s, the famine was upgraded to a genocide for Ukraine (Holomodor). “Stalin bad” is a welcome narrative for US/CIA.

    There was a genuine global famine at the time, and the US demanded Stalin pay USSR debt in food. Most of those exports went through Ukraine, and so Ukraine had some agency in its own famine levels. Ukraine’s per capita food allotment was higher than most USSR states including non-nazi/non-antagonist Kazahkstan which had more deaths but did not declare famine a genocide.

    The complex politics, like Syria’s famine/drought that sowed the seeds for ISIS/Israel takeover, meant not making everyone happy. Bourgeois farmers outside of Ukraine, the Kulaks, wanted extortion, famine market, pricing, and Stalin wanted to pay them less.

    The Irish Potato famine, was an oligarchist driven famine, the US would approve Stalin of having chosen. There was plenty of Irish potato production, but the prices were too high for the Irish to pay, so they were exported more. Stalin’s “crime” was fighting extortion pricing.

  • Rooty@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Reducing widespread human rights abuses in the Soviet Union to “one famine” shows a heady mixture of deliberate ignorance with hubris that only a western university educated leftist can posess.

  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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    8 days ago

    Also gotta remember about the Irish Potato Famine where the English just literally stood by and said “well yeah that’s just how it is” due to “free market” reasons. (In fact, they made everything worse by demanding that Ireland continue to export wheat)

    The Irish Potato Famine killed approximately 1 million people due to “free market above all” ideology.