as someone who graduated fairly recently (school added the fences my junior year) it just makes that place feel like even more of a fucking prison. also, fences are easy to bypass so all it would achieve is making it harder to escape if a shooter did get in. on top of that shooters are typically students, so it doesn’t keep them out to begin with. this means that the only two things it actually achieves are making students feel like they are in prison and keeping them on the premisis so the shooter can kill them even easier. the real answer to what the fences are supposed to do is to 1) put more effort into mental health stuff as that is often the main reason the shooter is doing it, and 2) teach kids to escape the school instead of teaching them to just kinda sit there. and before anyone replies taking about gun control, getting illegal stuff isn’t that hard (see drugs), making guns isn’t that hard (see luty submachine gun, or any 3D printed gun), and schools (including the entire campus) are already gun-free zones and have been for a long time. making things illegal does not stop people from getting them. the solution is to make people with mental conditions that make them dangerous to others get help, and to make the drills we already do better by teaching kids what will work, not what sounds nice.
See the sad thing is that almost your entire thoughts on this is centered around school shootings. Theres tons of other reasons schools might put up fences but to Americans kids deciding to ditch school and get into shit or getting themselves hurt or parents with custody disputes trying to gain access to their child when they shouldnt are just minor concerns.
my thoughts on that are centered around school shootings because that’s the reason schools are adding fences. to address the points you mentioned though, during my senior year when we had a fully constructed fence people still skipped school all the time (same people that always were) so the fence did not help. the whole custody thing is better solved by the parent that should have custody letting the school know about the situation at which point the school will have a legal obligation to ensure the child’s safety. shootings aside, this leaves only making kids feel like prisoners for potential changes the fence could make.
Its sad that thats where American thinking HAS to go because America had 69 victims and 12 shooters dead in 300+ incidents last year. Australia has had 6 incidents and 2 deaths since 1991 and our schools have fences too.
Theres dozens of reasons outside of shootings that schools may want to control access and yeah it does look like a prison and it is sad.
No, I think I will mention gun control. Because “it’s still technically possible to get” is a world different from the dystopian American “anyone can get one at any time for extremely cheap prices with zero oversight” reality.
Exactly. People will cite the fact that gangs smuggle guns all the time. And that is true, organized crime outfits absolutely can smuggle guns. And yes, it is also possible to make a gun from a 3D printed gun frame and parts anyone can buy on the net. And you can make your ammunition. But that really doesn’t translate to 16 year olds being able to get their hands on semi-automatic rifles and large quantities of ammunition. Just think for a second, actually think mechanically how that would work. Imagine we’re in a country with widespread gun control, (but still with illegal weapons to be found/made), and we have some 16 year old white suburban kid looking to get a hold of a gun.
So we have our would-be school shooter, trying to get his hands on a gun. What are his options? Maybe he tries to buy one. He asks the guy he buys weed from if he knows how to get a gun. Do you think any dealer slinging weed to high school kids is going to want to help him with that? They’re probably a student at that school. And criminals aren’t complete idiots. What gang of hardened criminals wants to sell a rifle and ammunition to a random white kid from the suburbs? You know exactly what it’s going to be used for. Gangs may be willing to take the risk of trafficking weapons to arm themselves, but they don’t just sell guns to any random person looking to buy, let alone to someone that is clearly planning to do something horrible with it. In reality, if our would-be shooter actually manages to meet the kinds of people that traffic weapons, it wouldn’t work well for him. At best, they turn him into the cops themselves. At worst, a 16 year old from the suburbs disappears never to be heard from again.
Ok, so if he can’t buy one, can he make one? Maybe. But they would have to have an extremely a home life unmonitored to the point of violating child neglect laws. People can make quite functional 3D-printed gun frames, but it’s a skill you develop. You have to go through multiple cycles of printing, fitting, reprinting, reprinting, etc. If you actually want to have a weapon that works, you essentially need a workshop. And specifically a workshop that no one but he ever accesses. Maybe some kid out on a farm could manage that if given a high degree of independence…maybe? But if you look at the home life of the typical school shooter, it is simply not the kind of environment that would be conducive to running an elicit weapons workshop. In all but the most extremely neglectful homes, a parent is going to see them working on firearms and immediately freak the fuck out. It’s just really hard to hide the kind of setup needed to make a 3D printed gun. This setup is not beyond what can be done in a domestic hobby workshop, but it is not the kind of thing that you can easily hide or disguise. In the case of our hypothetical 16 year old, they would try to setup the equipment necessary. But they would be quickly caught. Oh, and then we need to include the whole elaborate mini forge setup needed to actually make your own rounds…
TL:DR: consider the mechanics of a hypothetical 16-year old shooter actually trying to obtain a semi-automatic rifle in a world with strict gun control. Considering either the “buy it” or “build it” scenario, it would be extremely rare for any 16 year old to be able to obtain a gun. And this is true even assuming that gun running and 3D-printed guns continue to exist.
it’s not ‘zero oversight’, you have to get a background check and wait 2 weeks to get your gun even though you passed (this bit is kinda pointless), and other stuff as well depending on where you are and where you’re getting it. all that is irrelevant though because all a gun is is a tube with a stick in the back that hits the primer on the bullet, meaning all you need to make one is some pipe and a drill. also once again, see drugs for an example of how people will continue to attain illegal things even though they are illegan.
Yeah and if that background check were required, without loopholes like private sales, everywhere in the country, you’d halve the problem. The problem with America is that conservatives are so stuck on their ideology that even modest compromises in favour of sensible policy are rabidly opposed. Americans would rather children die than pass sensible policy. Every gun-supporting American has children’s blood on their hands.
as someone who graduated fairly recently (school added the fences my junior year) it just makes that place feel like even more of a fucking prison. also, fences are easy to bypass so all it would achieve is making it harder to escape if a shooter did get in. on top of that shooters are typically students, so it doesn’t keep them out to begin with. this means that the only two things it actually achieves are making students feel like they are in prison and keeping them on the premisis so the shooter can kill them even easier. the real answer to what the fences are supposed to do is to 1) put more effort into mental health stuff as that is often the main reason the shooter is doing it, and 2) teach kids to escape the school instead of teaching them to just kinda sit there. and before anyone replies taking about gun control, getting illegal stuff isn’t that hard (see drugs), making guns isn’t that hard (see luty submachine gun, or any 3D printed gun), and schools (including the entire campus) are already gun-free zones and have been for a long time. making things illegal does not stop people from getting them. the solution is to make people with mental conditions that make them dangerous to others get help, and to make the drills we already do better by teaching kids what will work, not what sounds nice.
See the sad thing is that almost your entire thoughts on this is centered around school shootings. Theres tons of other reasons schools might put up fences but to Americans kids deciding to ditch school and get into shit or getting themselves hurt or parents with custody disputes trying to gain access to their child when they shouldnt are just minor concerns.
my thoughts on that are centered around school shootings because that’s the reason schools are adding fences. to address the points you mentioned though, during my senior year when we had a fully constructed fence people still skipped school all the time (same people that always were) so the fence did not help. the whole custody thing is better solved by the parent that should have custody letting the school know about the situation at which point the school will have a legal obligation to ensure the child’s safety. shootings aside, this leaves only making kids feel like prisoners for potential changes the fence could make.
I think you got what I meant twisted.
Its sad that thats where American thinking HAS to go because America had 69 victims and 12 shooters dead in 300+ incidents last year. Australia has had 6 incidents and 2 deaths since 1991 and our schools have fences too.
Theres dozens of reasons outside of shootings that schools may want to control access and yeah it does look like a prison and it is sad.
No, I think I will mention gun control. Because “it’s still technically possible to get” is a world different from the dystopian American “anyone can get one at any time for extremely cheap prices with zero oversight” reality.
Exactly. People will cite the fact that gangs smuggle guns all the time. And that is true, organized crime outfits absolutely can smuggle guns. And yes, it is also possible to make a gun from a 3D printed gun frame and parts anyone can buy on the net. And you can make your ammunition. But that really doesn’t translate to 16 year olds being able to get their hands on semi-automatic rifles and large quantities of ammunition. Just think for a second, actually think mechanically how that would work. Imagine we’re in a country with widespread gun control, (but still with illegal weapons to be found/made), and we have some 16 year old white suburban kid looking to get a hold of a gun.
So we have our would-be school shooter, trying to get his hands on a gun. What are his options? Maybe he tries to buy one. He asks the guy he buys weed from if he knows how to get a gun. Do you think any dealer slinging weed to high school kids is going to want to help him with that? They’re probably a student at that school. And criminals aren’t complete idiots. What gang of hardened criminals wants to sell a rifle and ammunition to a random white kid from the suburbs? You know exactly what it’s going to be used for. Gangs may be willing to take the risk of trafficking weapons to arm themselves, but they don’t just sell guns to any random person looking to buy, let alone to someone that is clearly planning to do something horrible with it. In reality, if our would-be shooter actually manages to meet the kinds of people that traffic weapons, it wouldn’t work well for him. At best, they turn him into the cops themselves. At worst, a 16 year old from the suburbs disappears never to be heard from again.
Ok, so if he can’t buy one, can he make one? Maybe. But they would have to have an extremely a home life unmonitored to the point of violating child neglect laws. People can make quite functional 3D-printed gun frames, but it’s a skill you develop. You have to go through multiple cycles of printing, fitting, reprinting, reprinting, etc. If you actually want to have a weapon that works, you essentially need a workshop. And specifically a workshop that no one but he ever accesses. Maybe some kid out on a farm could manage that if given a high degree of independence…maybe? But if you look at the home life of the typical school shooter, it is simply not the kind of environment that would be conducive to running an elicit weapons workshop. In all but the most extremely neglectful homes, a parent is going to see them working on firearms and immediately freak the fuck out. It’s just really hard to hide the kind of setup needed to make a 3D printed gun. This setup is not beyond what can be done in a domestic hobby workshop, but it is not the kind of thing that you can easily hide or disguise. In the case of our hypothetical 16 year old, they would try to setup the equipment necessary. But they would be quickly caught. Oh, and then we need to include the whole elaborate mini forge setup needed to actually make your own rounds…
TL:DR: consider the mechanics of a hypothetical 16-year old shooter actually trying to obtain a semi-automatic rifle in a world with strict gun control. Considering either the “buy it” or “build it” scenario, it would be extremely rare for any 16 year old to be able to obtain a gun. And this is true even assuming that gun running and 3D-printed guns continue to exist.
it’s not ‘zero oversight’, you have to get a background check and wait 2 weeks to get your gun even though you passed (this bit is kinda pointless), and other stuff as well depending on where you are and where you’re getting it. all that is irrelevant though because all a gun is is a tube with a stick in the back that hits the primer on the bullet, meaning all you need to make one is some pipe and a drill. also once again, see drugs for an example of how people will continue to attain illegal things even though they are illegan.
Yeah and if that background check were required, without loopholes like private sales, everywhere in the country, you’d halve the problem. The problem with America is that conservatives are so stuck on their ideology that even modest compromises in favour of sensible policy are rabidly opposed. Americans would rather children die than pass sensible policy. Every gun-supporting American has children’s blood on their hands.