Aye, but it’s pretty telling of what the political spectrum is like on Lemmy when we can say that the crazies on that end of the spectrum are more frequent than the MAGA cultists. Not that I mind the lack of the far-right nutjobs, mind you. Their absence is one of the reasons I’m here.
The real crazy genocide denying leftists seem largely relegated to one particular instance anyway, and defederating that seems to make a big difference in your feed.
I was trying not to name drop, but I was referring to the Stalin-stans over on Hexbear who say that he didn’t do anything wrong, and if he did do it, then they deserved it.
Nor did I say anything about Saddam or Bush’s photos of the bomb from Die Hard that they used as evidence of WMDs, but go ahead and use me as That Guy and go off, queen.
Seeing how this thread is going and what posts and users have been deleted/banned, I can see where this is heading and I’m just gonna go ahead and block
.ml. Enjoy your chapo-trap or whatever.
The first sentence of “Tankies” by Roderic Day over on Red Sails explains that no one actually believes Stalin did nothing wrong. That’s a combination of Hexbear being more of a Communist and Anarchist hangout than a Communist party. It’s the internet. What people generally mean is that Stalin did not kill 100 million people, and his actual historical role was as a leader of the world’s first Socialist state, and as such has had piles and piles of myths distorting the real facts of his life by Western propagandists.
Hexbear is the Lemmy equivalent of 4chan, and like the QAnons there who started by posting their garbage and racism ironically, if you say something ironically enough times, you either begin to believe it yourself or it becomes indistinguishable from your beliefs.
And that was my whole point, and OP’s as well. That the rest of the internet has to deal with the right-wing MAGA chuds and QAnon crazies, and over here, we have Hexbear because Lemmy is just that left-wing. Even our chuds are leftists. But my patience has run out, and you all can join them in the sin bin. Goodbye and good riddance.
Hexbear is just a group of Anarchists and Marxists hanging out, calling them “chuds” is confused. You haven’t really backed up anything you say, just regular character assassinations and vague claims of “racism” coming from Leftists. I don’t think ableist attacks on Marxists and Anarchists is very productive, to be honest.
Hexbear, whose users have such a reputation for their hostility and aggressive attacks on other instances that instances have defederated them entirely rather than deal with them - the one I’m posting from included - are not “just a group of Anarchists and Marxists hanging out.” They’ve openly called for their mods to “take over” other instances. That’s not “just hanging out” or “irony poisoning” or whatever else you want to paint it as.
I started this out trying to avoid naming them because my point was that apart from a tiny sliver of crazies over there, we’re a far cry from the right-wing cesspool that is the rest of social media, and even the worst here are leftists because that’s how fairly united we are in terms of the political spectrum.
But I’m done. I get enough sea-lioning from transphobes on other platforms, I’m sick of dealing with it here as well. This thread has shown me just what caliber of people .ml is - mods included - and I find it not all that different from Twitter or Reddit. The only difference is that you guys argue Communist theory in a memes thread as a replacement for debunked transphobic studies. So go back to “hanging out” with the Hexbear chuds because I’m not going to spend another ounce of energy entertaining this nonsense anymore.
I’m not “sealioning,” I asked you what you meant by “racism” from Hexbear, proof or not. For what it’s worth, Hexbear had their reasons for defederating from Blahaj, notably the trans users on Hexbear felt unsafe by the way Blahaj was dealing with transphobic issues like chasers. Now you move on from unsupported claims of racism to unsupported claims of transphobia, and I still don’t know what you’re actually talking about.
I’m not “sealioning,” I asked you what you meant by “racism” from Hexbear, proof or not.
No, you didn’t. The closest you came to talking about racism was when you said:
It’s worth noting that I’ve seen far more people thinking of citizens of North Korea as pitiful subhumans than support for the DPRK in general, and fewer still who support the DPRK extending to the ROK.
Which didn’t disagree with my original post it was responding to and a statement that I agreed with in a now removed post that also pointed out how some users had become so irony poisoned that they had actually started believing their own nonsense. You then started quoting theory at me while claiming that nobody actually believes what they’re saying and cherry-picking my comments and calling them “ableist,” alongside a mod who also straw-manned me, accusing me of being media illiterate and supporting the US’s forever war in the Middle East based on a single statement about the worst of the extremism on the entirety of Lemmy that we have to deal with, which pales in comparison to the right-wingers of the rest of the internet.
Now you move on from unsupported claims of racism to unsupported claims of transphobia, and I still don’t know what you’re actually talking about.
Show me on the straw-man where I claimed anybody was transphobic instead of saying that you were sea-lioning and cherry-picking my comments to ignore my point that I’ve stated several times now, like the transphobes on other social media platforms do.
In short:
As for the Hexbear defederation, aye, that was the justification the admins over at Hexbear gave when they defederated from Blahaj suddenly and without warning while the admins of Blahaj and Lemm.ee were in talks with their userbases about the large volume of complaints about Hexbear users’ behavior and calls to defederate from Hexbear. The rest of the context is that up until that point, the admins on all sides had been on good terms with each other and had acted on any issues the admins had had - including said incidents which had happened in the past, and that the threads on both Blahaj and Lemm.ee where the admins of both instances were gathering feedback from their respective communities were brigaded by Hexbear users spamming emojis on comments to the point where the admins on both instances had to hide all posts by Hexbear users.
To quote some of the complaints from various users across various instances at the time:
But the downside is that it’s. Just. So. Exhausting. I fully agree that everything they discuss has a political undertone to it in some way. It feels like they just cannot turn off, and I always have to be on my guard when they get involved in any discussion, even if it’s nominally about a completely non-political topic. Even when they’re making high effort posts instead of spamming emojis and pig poop balls, every discussion feels like a minefield, where the slightest misstep gets you punished with a “here’s a response that implies/outright states you’re woefully misinformed at best and a protofascist nazi at worst, here’s a link to an obscure book written by a communist scholar 50 years ago that you should read before even trying to discuss this topic.” Hexbear getting involved in a discussion is the discourse equivalent of a group playing 4-player FFA Smash Bros. with items on and someone rolls up and demands 1v1, no items, tournament ruleset only.
Sound familiar? Because you should reread the entirety of the comment section on this post with that in mind. I think you’ll find a lot of similar behavior in here. That quote of theirs in the middle is an excellent summary of my interaction with the mod up there.
It really feels like the people who grew up on 4chan and later came out as queer, but never learned how toxic that was
Hexbear is what happens when kids (I hope they’re all in their early 20s or teens, because otherwise this gets much sadder) spend years reading on leftist theory but have zero real world experience. They get intense, volatile, argumentative and have no idea how those points reflect on themselves and in reality. This is why they go around prancing those absurd beliefs and fencing anyone who disagrees out, while also dogpiling and swarming communities that don’t agree: They only know what its like to be leftists in theory… Unfortunately for them, their echo chamber is going to go on and be the equivalent of a left wing /pol/.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Stalin-stans over on Hexbear who say that he didn’t do anything wrong, and if he did do it, then they deserved it.
Hexbear’s flavor of irony-poisoned humor does confuse some people. But Stalin didn’t do nearly as many things “wrong” as cold war propaganda told us. Even contemporary Western historians see Stalin in a very different light than corporate media, airport books, and popular culture do.
I unblocked the instance out of morbid curiosity, and what do I find? One side of the conversation only continues to exist because you quoted it. Hopefully some people get to see the full context from this post before it’s inevitably removed as well.
Those who post something ironically enough times either start to believe it themselves, or it becomes indistinguishable from their own beliefs. That’s how we ended up with QAnon and later the Proud Boys and MAGA cultists. 4channers who posted that stuff ironically long enough that either they or others on there started to huff their own farts and actually believe it.
And that was my entire point, and the point of OP in the first place. That the general political spectrum of Lemmy is so left-wing that instead of 4channers, QAnon, and MAGA, we have Hexbear and the irony-poisoned users who are high on their own supply.
But now we have a dictionary’s worth of arguing about theory while the original post has been removed and the OP banned, and my posts deleted as well and I’m probably going to be banned for this post talking about it.
I got less beef with any specific leader of a nation during World War 2 than I do with Hexbear users and their particular brand of brain rot and malicious actions against other instances. None of them were “good,” and most of them supported Hitler at one point or another or did horrible things themselves. Hell, you can blame the 70+ years long campaign against the Palestinians and the ongoing genocide squarely on the British promising the same piece of sacred land to multiple tribal groups during the Africa campaign. But I have even less patience than that for any of this while the oncoming administration here has openly and directly called for the genocide (in those words) of people like me. I’m blocking you and the rest of the mod team before I block the instance again just so I remember why I did it in the first place 5 days from now. Goodbye and good riddance.
Any leftist that shit talks Stalin is immediately suspicious in my eyes. Man led a country besieged from all sides not ten years before, invaded by the same fucks that financed the Nazis who then invaded them and turned the tide of Nazism at an incredible sacrifice, all of which can be reasonably laid at the feet of the west.
Then westerners have the nerve to act like he was a monster based on yet more atrocity propaganda created by holocaust deniers and literal Nazis (thank you, Operation Paperclip and the internationalization of fascism). Fuck off.
I would only suspect anti-Stalin leftists of ignorance as I have yet to find an instance where someone talks about Stalin in this way and it isn’t from a place of ignorance. Never seen it from someone who was informed and purposely pushing anti-Stalin Cold War propaganda…except fucking Trots.
Not that ignorance is a good excuse for their actions, but the amount of damage propaganda has done to the history surrounding Stalin is very difficult to break through and shouldn’t be overlooked. If someone didn’t grow up in a Western country, it seems they have a serious advantage in overcoming the challenge of looking at Stalin with a critical eye because they aren’t constantly exposed to an overwhelming amount of trash heaped on his grave. Not only can it be difficult to find information that isn’t Red Scare propaganda on your own, but you’ll be ostracized when trying to speak to anyone about the subject from anything but an anti-comminist perspective. It makes having discussions on the subject difficult and I can’t say I would have ever broken through this without the Internet.
Maybe I’m going too easy on them because overall I agree with you. I also want to give people the benefit of the doubt because I was once where they were and my anti-Soviet, anti-Stalin, and anti-China stances all came from a place of ignorance (and miseducation) that I only overcame once I began looking at the topics with a critical eye and put effort into learning about them from a different (and materialist) perspective.
an overwhelming amount of trash heaped on his grave
After my death, a lot of garbage will be put on my grave, but the wind of history will mercilessly dispel it.
I also want to give people the benefit of the doubt because I was once where they were and my anti-Soviet, anti-Stalin, and anti-China stances all came from a place of ignorance (and miseducation) that I only overcame once I began looking at the topics with a critical eye and put effort into learning about them from a different (and materialist) perspective.
That’s the vast majority of us on Lemmy. Almost all of us come from roughly the same life-long immersion in imperial core ideology & propaganda. I know it’s surmountable by at least some, because I eventually did.
Aye, but it’s pretty telling of what the political spectrum is like on Lemmy when we can say that the crazies on that end of the spectrum are more frequent than the MAGA cultists. Not that I mind the lack of the far-right nutjobs, mind you. Their absence is one of the reasons I’m here.
The real crazy genocide denying leftists seem largely relegated to one particular instance anyway, and defederating that seems to make a big difference in your feed.
We’re right here, actually, and we do indeed deny Western Cold War II bullshit propaganda.
I was trying not to name drop, but I was referring to the Stalin-stans over on Hexbear who say that he didn’t do anything wrong, and if he did do it, then they deserved it.
Nor did I say anything about Saddam or Bush’s photos of the bomb from Die Hard that they used as evidence of WMDs, but go ahead and use me as That Guy and go off, queen.
Seeing how this thread is going and what posts and users have been deleted/banned, I can see where this is heading and I’m just gonna go ahead and block .ml. Enjoy your chapo-trap or whatever.
The first sentence of “Tankies” by Roderic Day over on Red Sails explains that no one actually believes Stalin did nothing wrong. That’s a combination of Hexbear being more of a Communist and Anarchist hangout than a Communist party. It’s the internet. What people generally mean is that Stalin did not kill 100 million people, and his actual historical role was as a leader of the world’s first Socialist state, and as such has had piles and piles of myths distorting the real facts of his life by Western propagandists.
Hexbear is the Lemmy equivalent of 4chan, and like the QAnons there who started by posting their garbage and racism ironically, if you say something ironically enough times, you either begin to believe it yourself or it becomes indistinguishable from your beliefs.
And that was my whole point, and OP’s as well. That the rest of the internet has to deal with the right-wing MAGA chuds and QAnon crazies, and over here, we have Hexbear because Lemmy is just that left-wing. Even our chuds are leftists. But my patience has run out, and you all can join them in the sin bin. Goodbye and good riddance.
Hexbear is just a group of Anarchists and Marxists hanging out, calling them “chuds” is confused. You haven’t really backed up anything you say, just regular character assassinations and vague claims of “racism” coming from Leftists. I don’t think ableist attacks on Marxists and Anarchists is very productive, to be honest.
Enough with the sea-lioning.
Hexbear, whose users have such a reputation for their hostility and aggressive attacks on other instances that instances have defederated them entirely rather than deal with them - the one I’m posting from included - are not “just a group of Anarchists and Marxists hanging out.” They’ve openly called for their mods to “take over” other instances. That’s not “just hanging out” or “irony poisoning” or whatever else you want to paint it as.
I started this out trying to avoid naming them because my point was that apart from a tiny sliver of crazies over there, we’re a far cry from the right-wing cesspool that is the rest of social media, and even the worst here are leftists because that’s how fairly united we are in terms of the political spectrum.
But I’m done. I get enough sea-lioning from transphobes on other platforms, I’m sick of dealing with it here as well. This thread has shown me just what caliber of people .ml is - mods included - and I find it not all that different from Twitter or Reddit. The only difference is that you guys argue Communist theory in a memes thread as a replacement for debunked transphobic studies. So go back to “hanging out” with the Hexbear chuds because I’m not going to spend another ounce of energy entertaining this nonsense anymore.
I’m not “sealioning,” I asked you what you meant by “racism” from Hexbear, proof or not. For what it’s worth, Hexbear had their reasons for defederating from Blahaj, notably the trans users on Hexbear felt unsafe by the way Blahaj was dealing with transphobic issues like chasers. Now you move on from unsupported claims of racism to unsupported claims of transphobia, and I still don’t know what you’re actually talking about.
No, you didn’t. The closest you came to talking about racism was when you said:
Which didn’t disagree with my original post it was responding to and a statement that I agreed with in a now removed post that also pointed out how some users had become so irony poisoned that they had actually started believing their own nonsense. You then started quoting theory at me while claiming that nobody actually believes what they’re saying and cherry-picking my comments and calling them “ableist,” alongside a mod who also straw-manned me, accusing me of being media illiterate and supporting the US’s forever war in the Middle East based on a single statement about the worst of the extremism on the entirety of Lemmy that we have to deal with, which pales in comparison to the right-wingers of the rest of the internet.
Show me on the straw-man where I claimed anybody was transphobic instead of saying that you were sea-lioning and cherry-picking my comments to ignore my point that I’ve stated several times now, like the transphobes on other social media platforms do.
In short:
As for the Hexbear defederation, aye, that was the justification the admins over at Hexbear gave when they defederated from Blahaj suddenly and without warning while the admins of Blahaj and Lemm.ee were in talks with their userbases about the large volume of complaints about Hexbear users’ behavior and calls to defederate from Hexbear. The rest of the context is that up until that point, the admins on all sides had been on good terms with each other and had acted on any issues the admins had had - including said incidents which had happened in the past, and that the threads on both Blahaj and Lemm.ee where the admins of both instances were gathering feedback from their respective communities were brigaded by Hexbear users spamming emojis on comments to the point where the admins on both instances had to hide all posts by Hexbear users.
To quote some of the complaints from various users across various instances at the time:
Sound familiar? Because you should reread the entirety of the comment section on this post with that in mind. I think you’ll find a lot of similar behavior in here. That quote of theirs in the middle is an excellent summary of my interaction with the mod up there.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Hexbear’s flavor of irony-poisoned humor does confuse some people. But Stalin didn’t do nearly as many things “wrong” as cold war propaganda told us. Even contemporary Western historians see Stalin in a very different light than corporate media, airport books, and popular culture do.
I unblocked the instance out of morbid curiosity, and what do I find? One side of the conversation only continues to exist because you quoted it. Hopefully some people get to see the full context from this post before it’s inevitably removed as well.
Those who post something ironically enough times either start to believe it themselves, or it becomes indistinguishable from their own beliefs. That’s how we ended up with QAnon and later the Proud Boys and MAGA cultists. 4channers who posted that stuff ironically long enough that either they or others on there started to huff their own farts and actually believe it.
And that was my entire point, and the point of OP in the first place. That the general political spectrum of Lemmy is so left-wing that instead of 4channers, QAnon, and MAGA, we have Hexbear and the irony-poisoned users who are high on their own supply.
But now we have a dictionary’s worth of arguing about theory while the original post has been removed and the OP banned, and my posts deleted as well and I’m probably going to be banned for this post talking about it.
I got less beef with any specific leader of a nation during World War 2 than I do with Hexbear users and their particular brand of brain rot and malicious actions against other instances. None of them were “good,” and most of them supported Hitler at one point or another or did horrible things themselves. Hell, you can blame the 70+ years long campaign against the Palestinians and the ongoing genocide squarely on the British promising the same piece of sacred land to multiple tribal groups during the Africa campaign. But I have even less patience than that for any of this while the oncoming administration here has openly and directly called for the genocide (in those words) of people like me. I’m blocking you and the rest of the mod team before I block the instance again just so I remember why I did it in the first place 5 days from now. Goodbye and good riddance.
Any leftist that shit talks Stalin is immediately suspicious in my eyes. Man led a country besieged from all sides not ten years before, invaded by the same fucks that financed the Nazis who then invaded them and turned the tide of Nazism at an incredible sacrifice, all of which can be reasonably laid at the feet of the west.
Then westerners have the nerve to act like he was a monster based on yet more atrocity propaganda created by holocaust deniers and literal Nazis (thank you, Operation Paperclip and the internationalization of fascism). Fuck off.
I would only suspect anti-Stalin leftists of ignorance as I have yet to find an instance where someone talks about Stalin in this way and it isn’t from a place of ignorance. Never seen it from someone who was informed and purposely pushing anti-Stalin Cold War propaganda…except fucking Trots.
Not that ignorance is a good excuse for their actions, but the amount of damage propaganda has done to the history surrounding Stalin is very difficult to break through and shouldn’t be overlooked. If someone didn’t grow up in a Western country, it seems they have a serious advantage in overcoming the challenge of looking at Stalin with a critical eye because they aren’t constantly exposed to an overwhelming amount of trash heaped on his grave. Not only can it be difficult to find information that isn’t Red Scare propaganda on your own, but you’ll be ostracized when trying to speak to anyone about the subject from anything but an anti-comminist perspective. It makes having discussions on the subject difficult and I can’t say I would have ever broken through this without the Internet.
Maybe I’m going too easy on them because overall I agree with you. I also want to give people the benefit of the doubt because I was once where they were and my anti-Soviet, anti-Stalin, and anti-China stances all came from a place of ignorance (and miseducation) that I only overcame once I began looking at the topics with a critical eye and put effort into learning about them from a different (and materialist) perspective.
That’s the vast majority of us on Lemmy. Almost all of us come from roughly the same life-long immersion in imperial core ideology & propaganda. I know it’s surmountable by at least some, because I eventually did.