What you’re saying is true. Also, EU/US violated the agreements not to push NATO further east, and keeps forcing foreign governments in the Russian sphere of influence, listen to Victoria Nuland’s leaked call before the Maidan in which she explicitly argued which president they should install in Ukraine.
I hate the modern Russian government as much as you do, I have loved ones suffering directly the consequences of Putin’s fascist ideology. That said: I don’t believe Europe is much better than that as proved by the support of the genocide in Gaza and the thousands upon thousands of refugee deaths in the Mediterranean (mostly coming from wartorn countries that EU/US destabilised if not outright invaded). I simply do not want to die in the frontline of an avoidable war, and neither do you
I’ll also leave this paragraph here for no particular reason
“In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these [nukes] to Russia for dismantlement and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, in exchange for economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.”
You cannot make peace with someone that wants to annex you, control you or genocide you. Do you say the same to beaten wives so they don’t divorce their husband?
Come on now. Let’s not pretend there aren’t limits to negotiation with a violent person that refuses to stop being violent. No matter how many times you tell them, “No no, bad, baaaad! Killing baad! Genocide baaad!” To reform them, if they keep doing it: They have no respect for you and respect, last I checked, is a mutual two way street.
In such cases, the bully (murderer in this case) needs to be checked in the guts hard enough to submit, because that bully doesn’t want to change and since we can’t imprison the damn psychopath and he refuses to stop, teaching him a lesson will have to happen sooner or later.
EU is as violent and genocidal as Russia, that’s my entire point. Europe will genocide Palestinians, invade Iraqis, leave migrants to die in the Mediterranean, bomb Libya and Yugoslavia, and maintain troops in its colonies in Africa. By that logic, Russia can’t negotiate with the EU.
Thing is: the alternative to diplomacy is WORLD WAR THREE. I do not want to die in the frontlines or in nuclear apocalypse. So you should be doing all you fucking can to prevent these things.
The EU, as well as Russia, is a nuclear power. There isn’t a possibility of total defeat of either side in a conflict because of the availability of nuclear weapons. There is no possibility of EU being invaded, seemingly losing against a country with 1/3rd the population and 1/5th the economic output, and just accepting gracefully the defeat. Nuclear weapons ensure that those things don’t happen, sadly they don’t ensure that we don’t suffer a nuclear apocalypse.
And yes, I’d rather not die in nuclear apocalypse, idk about you but you seem rather eager
And what are you going to push for when Russia breaks those agreements?
Presupposing that the “evil country” will break agreements isn’t good praxis in diplomacy. There would never be deescalation and diplomacy otherwise.
Russia is currently breaking the agreements made after they annexed Crimea.
What you’re saying is true. Also, EU/US violated the agreements not to push NATO further east, and keeps forcing foreign governments in the Russian sphere of influence, listen to Victoria Nuland’s leaked call before the Maidan in which she explicitly argued which president they should install in Ukraine.
I hate the modern Russian government as much as you do, I have loved ones suffering directly the consequences of Putin’s fascist ideology. That said: I don’t believe Europe is much better than that as proved by the support of the genocide in Gaza and the thousands upon thousands of refugee deaths in the Mediterranean (mostly coming from wartorn countries that EU/US destabilised if not outright invaded). I simply do not want to die in the frontline of an avoidable war, and neither do you
I’ll also leave this paragraph here for no particular reason
“In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these [nukes] to Russia for dismantlement and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, in exchange for economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.”
Judging by his statement, @AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com would want more “peace” negotiations.
Yes, I would want more honest peace negotiations. What’s wrong with peace negotiations?
After the aggressor has invaded your country twice?
I’m not Ukrainian, my country hasn’t been invaded. And yes, Ukraine war will end through negotiations, believe it or not. Mark my words.
Appeasement never has and never will keep bullies from attacking you.
Negotiations have stopped wars in the past, what’s to prevent them from working now
You cannot make peace with someone that wants to annex you, control you or genocide you. Do you say the same to beaten wives so they don’t divorce their husband?
Come on now. Let’s not pretend there aren’t limits to negotiation with a violent person that refuses to stop being violent. No matter how many times you tell them, “No no, bad, baaaad! Killing baad! Genocide baaad!” To reform them, if they keep doing it: They have no respect for you and respect, last I checked, is a mutual two way street.
In such cases, the bully (murderer in this case) needs to be checked in the guts hard enough to submit, because that bully doesn’t want to change and since we can’t imprison the damn psychopath and he refuses to stop, teaching him a lesson will have to happen sooner or later.
EU is as violent and genocidal as Russia, that’s my entire point. Europe will genocide Palestinians, invade Iraqis, leave migrants to die in the Mediterranean, bomb Libya and Yugoslavia, and maintain troops in its colonies in Africa. By that logic, Russia can’t negotiate with the EU.
Thing is: the alternative to diplomacy is WORLD WAR THREE. I do not want to die in the frontlines or in nuclear apocalypse. So you should be doing all you fucking can to prevent these things.
False dichotomy. The options aren’t “peace” or “WORLD WAR THREE”.
There’s a third option, where Russia decides on “War” against the EU, and the EU says “Annex me harder, Daddy”.
That third option is the worst of the three. It’s also the option you are advocating.
The EU, as well as Russia, is a nuclear power. There isn’t a possibility of total defeat of either side in a conflict because of the availability of nuclear weapons. There is no possibility of EU being invaded, seemingly losing against a country with 1/3rd the population and 1/5th the economic output, and just accepting gracefully the defeat. Nuclear weapons ensure that those things don’t happen, sadly they don’t ensure that we don’t suffer a nuclear apocalypse.
And yes, I’d rather not die in nuclear apocalypse, idk about you but you seem rather eager