H1-B visa holders are essentially indentured servants. If they lose their job, they get deported and then it’s back to living 12 to a room in Bangalore.
I’m honestly surprised that Elon isn’t just pushing that angle as a positive.
You call it whatever you want to call it. “You work at this specific company or we kick you out of the country” is as exploitive and ultra-capitalistic as you can get.
It can be, but isn’t a guarantee. All countries do this to an extent, some do it better than others. You calling it the wrong thing trying to drive a point home with hyperbole isn’t helpful to anyone.
All countries have some sort of work for visa program, which by itself is not indentured servitude. And given there are non ultra-capitalistic countries that also have it, the practice is also not “as far as one can get”.
Hell, to group the US 's visa program in with the ones that literally end with slavery (and are actually like what you described) is just poor form.
Again, we are specifically talking about one country’s visa program and you are downplaying the draconian nature of it with a lot of dodging and whataboutism.
I’m not doing either of those things. You made a claim by misunderstanding terms for hyperbole. I said that your claim isn’t true. You backed up your claim with more hyperbole. I rebutted that with how it’s standard practice globally and even in within a larger scope is a more reasonable standard.
QED, the US visa program is not indentured servitude, by colloquial or exact definitions, and not ultra-capitalistic by any stretch. These are not whataboutism or dodging. They directly address your statements.
In reality we have examples of abuse in the US. When Twitter did all of that strange s*** when Musk took over, it was widely reported that foreign hires couldn’t quit because they didn’t have other jobs lined up. That’s one example but we can find countless other examples of similar situations. So the reality is that the program is abusive in the US. And in I think all other countries that have similar programs, because of course it is. It’s very difficult to find a new job in 2 months, and there’s no guarantee that the new job would be better than the old job, which means your bosses have the ability to f*** with you, and they know it, and you know it, and many of them have and will.
What could be done instead is to change the program. Even if you require people to come over with a sponsored application, don’t make them find a new job within 2 months. Simply allow them to reside in the country until the visa expires, regardless of employment status. Or, to make it even better, issue the visa based on qualifications and don’t even require a sponsor in order to get a visa. In the latter case, all of the visa holders would no longer be getting s*** pay. They would be on the same pay scale as American citizen employees. Or give them citizenship after two years. It’s laughably easy to brainstorm fixes to the broken system, but you won’t even recognize that the system is broken.
What you’re saying is possibly true in theory, but in fact all we have to do is look around everywhere in the world that has this type of visa to find abuses. The abuses are guaranteed, and the rate of abuse varies based on how active the government is at punishing bad employers.
No, but it does allow abuse. I’ve worked at places where the h1-b wages were lower than market rate cause they can’t really leave (they can, but finding another sponsor isn’t easy or without risks).
As someone who has worked outside of the US on an “immigrant visa”, I was paid normal wages and treated like a normal employee. I also could quit and look for any job I wanted. I don’t know anything about H1B, but substandard treatment definitely shouldn’t be expected just because you’re an immigrant.
H1-B visa holders are essentially indentured servants. If they lose their job, they get deported and then it’s back to living 12 to a room in Bangalore.
I’m honestly surprised that Elon isn’t just pushing that angle as a positive.
Not just H1-B, nearly all issued work visas are like that.
For real, he could live cam their miserable existence and say, “See how these minorities suffer for American profits!”
Then the fireworks go off and an eagle screams. The audience cheers!
Tying a visa to an employer is not indentured servitude.
You call it whatever you want to call it. “You work at this specific company or we kick you out of the country” is as exploitive and ultra-capitalistic as you can get.
It can be, but isn’t a guarantee. All countries do this to an extent, some do it better than others. You calling it the wrong thing trying to drive a point home with hyperbole isn’t helpful to anyone.
“All countries” do not have the U.S. H1-B visa program, which is what we are discussing.
All countries have some sort of work for visa program, which by itself is not indentured servitude. And given there are non ultra-capitalistic countries that also have it, the practice is also not “as far as one can get”.
Hell, to group the US 's visa program in with the ones that literally end with slavery (and are actually like what you described) is just poor form.
Again, we are specifically talking about one country’s visa program and you are downplaying the draconian nature of it with a lot of dodging and whataboutism.
I’m not doing either of those things. You made a claim by misunderstanding terms for hyperbole. I said that your claim isn’t true. You backed up your claim with more hyperbole. I rebutted that with how it’s standard practice globally and even in within a larger scope is a more reasonable standard.
QED, the US visa program is not indentured servitude, by colloquial or exact definitions, and not ultra-capitalistic by any stretch. These are not whataboutism or dodging. They directly address your statements.
Sorry, no. “Work at this specific company or you’re deported” is very much an ultra-capitalist position. I have no idea why you think otherwise.
In reality we have examples of abuse in the US. When Twitter did all of that strange s*** when Musk took over, it was widely reported that foreign hires couldn’t quit because they didn’t have other jobs lined up. That’s one example but we can find countless other examples of similar situations. So the reality is that the program is abusive in the US. And in I think all other countries that have similar programs, because of course it is. It’s very difficult to find a new job in 2 months, and there’s no guarantee that the new job would be better than the old job, which means your bosses have the ability to f*** with you, and they know it, and you know it, and many of them have and will.
What could be done instead is to change the program. Even if you require people to come over with a sponsored application, don’t make them find a new job within 2 months. Simply allow them to reside in the country until the visa expires, regardless of employment status. Or, to make it even better, issue the visa based on qualifications and don’t even require a sponsor in order to get a visa. In the latter case, all of the visa holders would no longer be getting s*** pay. They would be on the same pay scale as American citizen employees. Or give them citizenship after two years. It’s laughably easy to brainstorm fixes to the broken system, but you won’t even recognize that the system is broken.
Dude, I just said it’s not indentured servitude.
I never said the system wasn’t broken, in fact I’m on one of those horrible visas now.
What you’re saying is possibly true in theory, but in fact all we have to do is look around everywhere in the world that has this type of visa to find abuses. The abuses are guaranteed, and the rate of abuse varies based on how active the government is at punishing bad employers.
No, but it does allow abuse. I’ve worked at places where the h1-b wages were lower than market rate cause they can’t really leave (they can, but finding another sponsor isn’t easy or without risks).
Well yeah, that comes with any sort of immigration setup.
As someone who has worked outside of the US on an “immigrant visa”, I was paid normal wages and treated like a normal employee. I also could quit and look for any job I wanted. I don’t know anything about H1B, but substandard treatment definitely shouldn’t be expected just because you’re an immigrant.