• Doomsider@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 hour ago

    They are both wrong.

    The correct way is to argue passionately that your country has committed the MOST war crimes/genocides/human rights violations. Ya know, bragging rights.

    • Malek061@lemmy.world
      0·
      5 hours ago
      1. Dragging anchor in the baltic and cutting cables.
      2. Ramming Philippine ships and assaulting sailors.
      3. Genocide of the Uyghers.
      4. Tibet genocide.
      5. The rampant illegal fishing in every other countries coastline.
      • Shezzagrad@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        5 hours ago

        Here’s 5 actual war crimes

        1. My Lai massacre Vietnam - America
        2. Iraq invasion (there’s thousands within this one including Abu ghraib) -america/nato 3- dressing up as medical personnel and massacring a refugee camp to save 1 person in gaza- Israel and America 4- a host of lesser known but many technical war crimes in Afghanistan like bombing undefended villages and towns https://www.culawreview.org/journal/double-standards-in-international-law-did-the-us-get-away-with-war-crimes-in-afghanistan 5- raping children and murdering their family. This is American tactic in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria with many documented cases
        • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          0·
          4 hours ago

          What do you chuds not understand about “two countries are committing war crimes”? You asked about China and got an answer about China. You’re trying to convince us who’s the second worst empire.

          • Shezzagrad@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            4 hours ago

            I think you’re missing the WAR part of the WAR CRIME. I thought you’d realise by now, but you’re really digging yourself a hole. Funny thing is there are wars you could have mentioned and war crimes. The point of original comment was to draw our those without any knowledge like you 😜

            • explodicle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              0·
              4 hours ago

              I’m explaining to you why this comparison is a poor argument, not volunteering to dance around various different arguments all day.

      • Shezzagrad@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        5 hours ago

        1 isn’t a war crimes lmao 2 isn’t a war crime 3. Isn’t a war crime nor is there proof. Literal unbacked western propaganda, wanna know what is backed? Gaza, By the west and Sudan genocide by America via UAE 4. Perhaps, I would need to do more research on this one, but didn’t you got 3 wrong, I wouldn’t be surprised if your wrong again 5. Not a war crime

        • Malek061@lemmy.world
          0·
          5 hours ago

          Crimes against humanity are war crimes. Looting is a war crime. Invasion of a sovereign nation is an act of war. Stealing their resources is looting. Genocide is a crime against humanity and Tibet and the Uyghers are in one.

          Wolf warriors that bury their head in the sand will suffocate under the lies.

          China has been real bad.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
            0·
            4 hours ago

            Uyghers are in one

            There is no post-2021 evidence whatsoever of human right abuses of any sort in the Xinjiang province against Uyghur people. You can try to find stuff but you won’t find anything, I dare you to send me a single article that has an actual reference to actual evidence of post-2021 human right abuses. Send me an article and point to the actual reference within the article. I dare you.

            • Malek061@lemmy.world
              0·
              1 hour ago

              Uyghur Genocide and Concentrated Reeducation Camps in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People’s Republic of China https://search.app/fyMhR137LTgqVkEJ8

              Here is a report from the office of national intelligence last November listing all the data for the genocide.

            • jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              0·
              3 hours ago

              lmfao “post-2021” moving the goalposts as if that matters or changes anything. and this other user claiming it can’t be a war crime because there’s no war. literally L. M. F. A. O.

              i’m an american, i’m a little dull to the ol “it isn’t technically a war bc we didn’t declare war >:2” shit

              fuck america, fuck china, fuck authority.

              you and this other guy are tankie trash, full stop.

              • Shezzagrad@lemmy.mlEnglish
                0·
                3 hours ago

                you and this other guy are tankie trash, full stop. So does then make you fascist trash? This isn’t the cold war and I was born in Scotland not Yugoslavia No buddy were just a bit brighter then you. There’s 3 tiers of thinking. 'one side is wholly bad" Tier 2 “both sides are bad” Tier 3" both sides are bad but I want to look deeper into the complexites and nuances which made me realise, one side is infinitely worse" You’re stuck on tier 2. i’m an american, i’m a little dull to the ol “it isn’t technically a war bc we didn’t declare war >:2” shit

                You said it yourself you are pretty dull as you don’t know what a freaking war crime Vs a crime against humanity is. A crime against humanity would be like slaving your citizens… Like how it’s codified in American prison laws

                • Comrade Spood@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  0·
                  27 minutes ago

                  “Anyone who isn’t a ML is a fascist” is effectivepy what you said. Classic tankie red-fash bullshit. You bastards can only think in black or white, no nuance, no grey area, so rooted in the belief that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. You’re so blinded by your hatred of American and western fascism you are blind to the rest of the world’s descent into fascism. We live in a world ruled by fascism and imperialism, conflicts are just two fascist powers duking it out. China is just fascism with red aesthetics and America is just fascism with blue aesthetics.

          • Shezzagrad@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            5 hours ago

            Crimes against humanity aren’t war crimes. You’re reading comprehension is lacking my friend. The war in war crimes means warfare.

            Speaking of genocides. You have mentioned two. Most genocides on the planet are actively done by America and it’s allies or it supplies the weapons and silences the media.

            Considering China having 5 times the population of america. Id say china has been very good comparatively on the world. Also nothing to say how 4 of 5 of your war crimes weren’t at all war crimes??

    • ChillPenguin@lemmy.world
      0·
      4 hours ago

      Idk why there’s such a pissing match in this post. Like honestly. Both our governments are shit. Why is this even a debate as to whose government is committing war crimes more? Your comment is the best comment here by far.

    • Big Miku@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      4 hours ago

      The inner battle of not issuing a final warning, duh. Truly a vicious war.

  • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    0·
    1 day ago

    The worst accusation you could make about China’s alleged warcrimes are how neutral they are in regards to Israel. They also sell guns to both sides of the Kashmir conflict, which isn’t great. They have sold guns to Israel in the past as commerce, but that’s a far cry from the west simply giving Israel weapons and intelligence for free.

    Whereas the USA invades a new country on average every 1.5 years and has over 800 overseas military bases. China hasn’t had an active overseas military conflict since the Vietnam war. This isn’t a comparison at all.

    • Kacarott@aussie.zone
      0·
      1 day ago

      One of the most frustrating things that I see so commonly, is that when there is criticism of the Chinese government, it is almost always redirected into whataboutism about the US.

      I’m not from the US or China. My views are that both these governments are terrible, though I admittedly am not very informed about China. But these kinds of non-responses do not help.

      Edit: I do realise that this meme itself sort of sets up the comparison, but I just wish we could analyse the actions of each government independently, without making excuses for one by pointing fingers at the other.

      • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
        0·
        4 hours ago

        My views are that both these governments are terrible, though I admittedly am not very informed about China

        Rofl. Lmao even

        • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          0·
          19 hours ago

          It will get funny when the “im not american” @aussie.zone user turns out to be Australian.

        • Kacarott@aussie.zone
          0·
          1 day ago

          I’m sorry, is it discouraged to be self aware? It is very common to have preconceived ideas about things based on media/whatever, however I am trying to be self aware enough to realise that this view isn’t based on very much research, which is why I’m trying to re-evaluate it.

          Surely it is far more arrogant to assume I have no ill-informed views, and that I have never been affected by misinformation.

          • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            0·
            9 hours ago

            You’re arguing with tankies. You are attacking China in their eyes. You are fighting a losing battle because you cannot convince them China has major faults and blemishes and systemic issues like the US.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              0·
              7 hours ago

              I don’t think that’s a useful framing. The central thesis of most “tankies” is that the version of the PRC that exists in the minds of Westerners and the version that exists in reality are fundamentally different, and that this is largely due to a concerted effort by western countries to depict China in a negative light exclusively. That does not mean that there aren’t serious problems with the PRC, or that it doesn’t have a long way to go, but admitting to having a negative stance without doing much investigation means that they should investigate, rather than contribute to a miasma of other ill-informed takes.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      1 day ago

      I think calling situation in Xinjiang as a war crime was sloppy…

      Should said genocide and the meme stands

      • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        0·
        21 hours ago

        there are like a billion youtube videos of people traveling in Xinjiang and finding nothing wrong.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        1 day ago

        I didn’t know there were people still seriously trying to sell the “Uyghur genocide” propaganda nonsense. Mainstream media gave up on it years ago, and Israel showing what genocide actually looks like mostly put the last nail in the casket for all but the most committed sinophobes.

        • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
          0·
          1 day ago

          Israel are showing us what genocide actually looks like

          There’s levels of genocide - Uyghur is definitely one, Israel on Palestine is one, so was US on First Nations, then you’ve got the ones previously in the Balkans, Rwanda and the Caucasus which make all of those look like child’s play

          • Grapho@lemmy.ml
            0·
            23 hours ago

            If it is definitely one, you might be able to post incontrovertible evidence of it, and not just an ASPI report linking to Adrian Zenz or a satellite photo of a building they pinky swear is a death camp?

            • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
              0·
              21 hours ago

              adrian zenz blurry satellite photos of random buildings have more weight than tourists filming their experiences in Xinjiang for these dummies.

              • Grapho@lemmy.ml
                0·
                21 hours ago

                China has paid a hundred trillion xibucks for thousands upon thousands of travel bloggers to film life around Xinjiang, plus hundreds of thousands of paid actors (in the enormous autonomous region where a genocide is taking place at the same time).

                I can’t believe you sheeple can’t see the obvious truth.

            • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
              0·
              22 hours ago

              incontrovertible

              The issue is, genocide deniers are very keen to dispute any readily available facts - Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, Holodomor, etc deniers, along with flat earthers and other far-fetched conspiracy believers are willing to reject swathes of evidence and released documents that show intent and execution; I could link you interviews with Uyghurs saying they were forceably steralised or reeducayed from respected sources (and am happy to) but it seems like you’ve already made your mind up so will just be selectively blind when reading them

                • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
                  0·
                  22 hours ago

                  Thanks for proving my point that you reject even being offered evidence because you don’t want to see something that challenges your worldview.

                  I could’ve spent time compiling a list, but you’d either ignore it or say it’s a biased source because it’s non-chinese or something.

    • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      0·
      21 hours ago

      you see, these 2 are equally as bad because a german that doesn’t speak a word of mandarin and has not ever visited china provided me a satellite picture of a big building and wrote a fan fiction about it.

      • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
        0·
        23 hours ago

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiEhITvJuyE

        You can watch this and look for any evidence of your claim. You wont see any. Or you can take my word for it when i tell you i literally spoke to a uyghur from Xinjiang on XHS the other day and they were chillin enjoying life.

        Either way maybe dont just take the word of whatever Western Media mouthpieces tell you?

        • alcibiades@lemm.eeEnglish
          0·
          4 hours ago

          C’mon bro we can’t seriously be debating if the Uyghur genocide is real. Obviously China isn’t all evil but this is a well documented genocide.

          And bro why you pulling the “I’m not racist, I have a black friend” card. Shut yo bitch ass up

      • ClathrateG [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        0·
        1 day ago

        ? The UN says their is no Uyghur genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Rights_Office_report_on_Xinjiang, and I trust their investigation alot more than those from countries like the US that have a vested interest in painting China as negatively as possible

        Even if the propaganda we’re true it would constitute a crime against humanity not a war crime, unless you count the ETIM terror campaign a ‘war’

        • Juigi@lemm.ee
          0·
          8 hours ago

          Chinese shills don’t even read their own posts.

          Fucking disappointing to see lemmy to be taken over by ccp sympathizers.

          Next people here are gonna explain how students in Tiananmen Massacre deserved what they got.

          Cya lemmy it was nice for a time!

        • j_overgrens@feddit.nl
          0·
          9 hours ago

          A fabrication? Did you even read that pdf? I quote:

          Serious human rights violations have been committed in XUAR in the context of the Government’s application of counter-terrorism and counter-“extremism” strategies. The implementation of these strategies, and associated policies in XUAR has led to interlocking patterns of severe and undue restrictions on a wide range of human rights. These patterns of restrictions are characterized by a discriminatory component, as the underlying acts often directly or indirectly affect Uyghur and other predominantly Muslim communities.

          • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            17 hours ago

            It’s true, your screenshot shows no war crimes. You failed at sarcasm.

          • ClathrateG [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            0·
            20 hours ago

            That has no mention of a war that has China as belligerent, can you specify which war you think these crimes are occurring as part of? and specify them?

    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
      0·
      1 day ago

      Yeah, not really comparable when it comes to war crimes. If someone wanted to conflate a topic that makes both countries look similarly bad in an honest light, it would be the treatment of ethnic minorities.

      • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
        0·
        4 hours ago

        the treatment of ethnic minorities

        You mean the US having the highest prison population in the world, to the point of 1 in 5 black men over 30 having been to jail at some point of their lives?

      • Grapho@lemmy.ml
        0·
        21 hours ago

        That would not be an honest light. China actually takes their affirmative action seriously and not just pays lip service to it while continuing to enact genocidal policies like the US still does on the indigenous peoples of the mainland and occupied Hawai’i which has been gentrified and settled to the point of being unlivable for most of the locals.

        The claims of China’s abuse of ethnic minorities are a scam espoused by the same people profitting off the genocide in Palestine. Anybody who takes the evidence seriously instead of treating accusations as trustworthy because of the volume of them doesn’t understand (or chooses to ignore) how the US propaganda machine has always worked.

        People still on that “China genocide” bs are about as ridiculous as people claiming Iraq had WMDs into the Obama years. It’s a level of gullibility so big that it has to be voluntary.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
          0·
          3 hours ago

          enact genocidal policies like the US still does on the indigenous peoples of the mainland and occupied Hawai’i which has been gentrified and settled to the point of being unlivable for most of the locals.

          And the same has been said about tibet, inner Mongolia, and xinjiang. I mean you can look at Chinas own census data and see that han Chinese are migrating to cities in xinjiang, displacing ethnic minorities to move away from their cultural cities.

          The claims of China’s abuse of ethnic minorities are a scam espoused by the same people profitting off the genocide in Palestine. Anybody who takes the evidence seriously instead of treating accusations as trustworthy because of the volume of them doesn’t understand (or chooses to ignore) how the US propaganda machine has always worked.

          You are conflating the accusations of genocide in one region with the accusations of ethnic discrimination. Even in that grey zone article it is conflating the study from some weird neocon group with all investigations into ethnic discrimination in China.

          Han chauvinism is an established concept that even Mao took aims to curtail. Something they are still combating considering there has only been one ethnic minority to serve in the central committee in the last 35 years.

          An actual criticism that I have about Xi is that he is a bit culturally conservative. The belt and road initiative utilized a lot of han centric language and the current central committee is notably the first committee that has no women serving on it in the last +25 years.