Before we had been introduced, my wife’s BFF told her I might be gay because I like opera.
Me in the 2000s: No lotion, no conditioner, no umbrella, no scarf. Just ashy skin, nasty hair, and choking on the rain and cold.
Not because I was afraid of being made fun of, but because I was stupid and gross.
You young GenZ homies knowing how to groom are the real champs.
Metrosexual 2033, Metrosexual Last Light, and Metrosexual Exodus
And the potentially aptly named VR title, Metrosexual Awakening
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Asian dude who went to high school in the 90s.
We were constantly called metro or straight up gay because we dressed like BTS before BTS was born.
But they called us that in a hateful way.
Ya 90s high school sucked for minorities.
The culture shift is stark sometimes when you watch old stuff.
On the other hand, don’t let them turn that into an excuse. You know what dealt with trans rights in a pretty honest, raw, and understanding way, in the mid 1980s? Fucking Hill Street Blues. One of the cops gets together with a woman, he’s happy to be with her, and then the other cops start giving him hell for it because she used to be a man. He gets disgusted and angry, goes over to her place, and she lectures him about it and sets him straight, tells him to figure out if he wants to be with her, but don’t try to turn who I am into some kind of thing I did to you, or make me feel bad about it. He sort of accepts it, because she clearly has a point, and that’s the end of the episode.
Hill Street Blues, man.
One of Al Pacino’s best movies, Dog Day Afternoon, is still a very relevant movie to this day and was released in 1975.
Night Court did the same thing. The assistant D.A., Dan, has an old buddy who visits after many years and turns out they transitioned and have a boyfriend. Dan is stunned because they used to party and womanize together, but his friend said he was never actually into it. At one point Dan argues with the new boyfriend and says, “He used to be a guy!” Boyfriend says it doesn’t matter. He loves her. That episode really stuck with me, watching it as a kid.
I was going to mention this. I started watching the old night court when the new one started airing and was blown away at how well they handled that episode given the time period.
David Milch the creator of the Deadwood series wrote and produced several episodes of Hill Street Blues.
Yeah, I had a pretty sheltered childhood because I remember lots of good shows with a lot less of those issues. I watched a lot of sci-fi though, which IME tends to be a bit more forward-thinking. Not super surprising if you think about it
Doctor who had every type of queer back in the mid-late 2000s. From a trans “last human” to lesbian aliens
Doctor who had every type of queer back in the mid-late 2000s. From a trans “last human” to lesbian aliens
Wait, that “bitchy trampoline” was trans? How is that even possible with so few body parts left?
In her introduction episode she makes reference to “when I was a little boy”
She’s also a conwoman, which is kinda unfortunate and ties into upsetting stereotypes and tropes.
There’s enough examples of positive trans or otherwise characters in Doctor Who that it should be fine. You should be able to use queer characters as villains so long as them being queer isn’t part of their motivation.
I just dislike/am suspicious of a trans character whose main traits are that she is duplicitous and obsessed with unnecessary cosmetic surgeries. I’m not anti queer villains, but I bristle at stereotypes about queer individuals being used as their villainous traits.
I definitely see your point, and this might be a bit of hope posting but they did turn her around a bit. It was 2005 when she was just an evil trampoline (oh my god I think I just made a connection. Say that out loud a time or two), but then in the next season she realizes how much prettier she was before all of the surgery and how much nicer it felt to be kind. Of course, she only has this realization moments before death but I want to believe that there’s an actual positive statement in there
There’s still weird shit on tv. For obvious reasons, I haven’t seen much Big Bang Theory, but that show has some weird, casual sexism.
Watched Ace Ventura a few years ago for the first time since I was a kid. I remembered the whole trans reveal thing. Never put together as a kid they were implying that it was part of that character being mentally ill and completely forgot about Ace and the cops freaking out after finding out.
Yeah. It’s absolutely nuts.
In the 60s, if you were a man in a movie, you could hit women if they were getting crazy, to set them straight.
In the 80s, the heroes of movies could commit rape (Revenge of the Nerds) or child molestation (Indiana Jones) and still be the heroes of the movies.
In the 90s, the simple fact of a character being gay, or God forbid trans, was its own comedic element, without anything additional needing to be added.
Things have changed. Like changed a lot.
In Pinto’s defense he did, after some soul searching, decide not to fuck the passed-out girl. Congrats, Pinto.
I like retrospective threads like this. Puts things in perspective. Growing up under conditions like that, it would have been weird if I hadn’t repressed my gender identity. Pity things couldn’t have changed earlier, and let me realize sooner.
I have a degree in musical theatre and am a member of a music oriented fraternity. The fraternity was called “the gay” fraternity by the typical frat bro organizations within the last decade. Its not just relegated to the early part of the 2000s.
I bet you guys had far better parties
The gay theatre kid has been a stereotype forever, but they literally had to invent a word to describe guys who showered and wore something that wasn’t a T-shirt because that was enough for even women to think you were gay. The homophobia was so bad back then that you could possibly lose your job if people thought you were gay because you used hair gel and dressed well.
The 90s and 2000s were something else.
I remember how angrily people would defend themselves not being gay.
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No lie. I had guys hit on me back then and all but run when I said, no thanks, I’m flattered but I’m straight.
“They said bad things about gays in the 2000s!”
Oh my sweet summer child, gays used to be hunted coming out of gay bars.
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LOL, back then I didn’t know Freddie Mercury or Rob Halford were gay. Yeah, that’s how society was.
Even that shitty Bohemian Rhapsody didn’t seem to realize that Freddie was gay.
I remember liking that movie and it seemed they made no bones about him being bi.
Were you thinking his sexuality should have been the primary focus? Because I think the man would rather be remembered primarily for his music.
The film makes it seem as if he was supposed to be with Mary. The gay relationship we see throughout the film is tied to the partying and drugs (and was made up). His actual relationship with Hutton, who he spent like a full decade of his life with, is relegated to the end.
In the film, we see being gay = partying, drugs, HIV. The man he ended his life with, who he loved, receives far less screen time than the evil fictionalized producer. There was an opportunity to show a real positive and loving gay relationship, and the choice was made to prioritize showing up a made up toxic one.
Wait, shorts were gay? Does that include cargo shorts? Cuz there were a lot of cargo shorts at the time.
Source: used to wear cargo shorts back then. I still do, but I used to too.
Basically any clothing that actually fit your build instead of being a lumpy bag was gay
I think it depended on if your shorts were above or below the knee. Cargo shorts, I want to say, are okay. I want to say that because I used to wear cargo shorts.
the shorts part makes no sense. everyone wears shorts
I can remember getting shouted at from a moving car for wearing shorts circa 2006, it was a thing.
Just people shouting invectives at you as they drove past, is that still a thing? I remembered it happening quite a bit back then, and it would ruin my day each time.
No they mean a certain type of shorts that end above the knees. Not the shorts that are basically three quarters pants. The shorter they were the gayer you’d be.
Gay:
Not gay:
That’s not “gay”. Not in any circle of people I’ve ever been in. That’s rich boy yacht clothing. Especially if they are salmon colored shorts.
I appreciate your period-appropriate example with TJ Ford.
Ohh, I distinctly remember that showing your knees was gay. But not as gay as bending over to pick up a pencil without bending your knees for it. It meant you wanted it up the ass then and there, there was no other conceivable reason.
Haha I learned the habit of properly lifting and not breaking your back this way. Looks like school taught me something practical after all.
Thank god I grew up in Europe. I would’ve been gay as fuck in America.
unless you’re wearing running shorts in which case the length of the shorts is inversely related to how good/fast of a runner you are.
Best part is that the “not gay” shorts look like a skirt. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
The not gay ones are hella comfortable looking. Not sure about the gay ones, I’ve never really been into that type, I prefer my shorts really loose and the pockets big enough to hold 2 liter bottles
Oh, for sure. Skirts are also really comfy. Just thought it was funny given the context.
It was only if they fell above the knees that made you gay. If they fell below the knee or were basketball shorts, you were fine.
Well the term originated in Britain where they weren’t that popular at the time, and like the post says it was only if you wore short too much.
They are comfy and easy to wear!
I don’t. The only time I’d ever wear shorts is when swimming.
Can’t even wear my chartreuse short-shorts with JUICY printed on the butt without people thinking I’m gay
That’s cause you need a hot pink button up with “Badman” emblazoned on the back to truly state your masculine dominance to the world.
A friend’s boyfriend has a hot pink and glittery t-shirt that says “Alpha Male” on it, which I find hilarious
that’s two words for the same thing…depending on which european country it is.
I didn’t even look at the post
That came about partly because homosexuality in the US was legalized on June 26, 2003. Without the fear of raids, people started talking more openly about sexuality and the tide was turning slowly more positive that movies and TV shows that joined the conversation weren’t immediately shut down.
Wow, I’m not American so I didn’t realise Texas was holding out that long, wasn’t Massachusetts offering state sanctioned marriages in like 04/05? That timeline is mind blowing! To have one state doing so much for equal rights while the other fights in court to actively do less.
I thought here in Australia, Tasmania was bad waiting until 1997 when their overseas neighbour to the north (Vic) was 1980… Then we didn’t get any form of same sex marriage until 2017.
But 2003!
You have actually broken my brain with this fact…
If you really want your mind blown, TX police are still trained on the sodomy law (even though they can’t enforce it) and there are still sodomy laws on the books in I believe 12 other states, according to a New York Times article I saw. If Lawrence v TX is overturned, as Thomas has insinuated it could be, the sodomy laws could immediately be enforced again.
When Lawrence v TX was decided, it overturned the sodomy laws in the states of Idaho, Utah, TX, Oklahoma, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan, and also Puerto Rico.
Since that ruling, the only states that have repealed the ban on sodomy are Alabama, Missouri, and Puerto Rico. People in the other states will be in danger should Lawrence be overturned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States
how insanely homophobic the early 2000’s were
Me as a Gen X’er who lived during the 80’s and 90’s and witnessed the absolute rage hatred for gay and trans people during that time.
Yep, we were doing so well and now look at us.
I should say doing well in terms of direction, not absolutes.
Oh, and rape was funny. We were supposed to laugh at victims of rape, especially men being eaped in prisons, but occasionally women being raped as well.
You still hear a prison rape joke every now and then.
Like it’s hilarious that we let wards of the State get tortured by other inmates, presumably because they “deserve” it.
Not a thought to “hmm, maybe if we’re essentially sentencing someone to be raped then there’s a systemic problem to be addressed,” and often times “why do you love criminals so much” if you voice an opinion contrary to the accepted wisdom that they had it coming.
The only prison rape jokes I’ve heard in the last 10 years are about paedophiles “getting what they deserve in prison”
Which I didn’t really think was a funny haha joke, just a “I don’t know how to respond or fathom paedophilia, it’s deeply uncomfortable and unsettling…haha”
I also personally don’t know how I feel about those kinds of jokes.
The rule in comedy is never punch down, but hopefully that’s where you’ve got to aim if you’re targeting a convicted child molester, I don’t think I’m better than anyone, I believe all human life has equal inherent value…but I also think I’m better than a child molester and that given control of a runaway trolley, their life has less value.
That sure is some cognitive dissonance, so cracking a joke at the expense of a paedophile in prison is easier than confronting my own opinions towards the value of human life.
I just watched some show from the 90s where the punchline is that the character was going to get sexually molested in a dark room. I can’t believe that got a thumbs up.
That take seems a bit inaccurate.
Metrosexual meant going above & beyond in male beauty care (a pretty low bar): going to a salon to get manicures & pedicures, maybe apply foundation & eyeliner, manscaping. Possibly wearing those low-heel shoes that show the ankles without socks.
I also remember the words fag and like being ambiguous such that in written contexts I’d sometimes see the clarification good kind of fag to mean homosexual in contrast to an insult directed at someone the insulter dislikes (for being pretentious, aggravating, annoying or whatever). In speech, the distinction was often understood from tone & context, so someone could be a fag (homosexual) yet not an effing fag (detestable), and their company might be absolutely welcome for that reason. An insulter would usually pile on imagery of the subject performing homosexual acts as the recipient of such insults typically disapproves portrayals of themselves that way. The insult was a way to puncture egos & authorities claiming a traditionally masculine image. It wasn’t particularly effective against out & proud homosexuals or people who weren’t homophobic. While fag wasn’t always an insult, however, bigots & religious zealots often drew no distinction, either.
That’s my recollection too.
Men in the 2000’s new about grooming. That was nothing new. “Metrosexual” referred to men who took it to extremes. The opening scene of “American Psycho” was held up as perfect example of metrosexual behaviour. It left open the possibility that of homosexuality but could absolutely apply to people who were seen as 100% straight. It was more synonymous with “dandy”, “fop” or “narcissist”.
In my mind, gay or straight is secondary for a metrosexual. Their first love will always their own image.
That said, there was crazy homophobia back then. Ya’ll don’t even want to hear about what kind of shit was going on before people had cell phones that recorded everything.
That said, there was crazy homophobia back then.
Yes, not to understate it. Though it was a few years earlier, Matthew Shepard’s murder was prominent, and similar homophobic killings continued into the 2000s. Nightclub shootings took headlines this decade & the last, too. While parts of society seem more tolerant nowadays, regressive parts of society have hardly changed at all, so it’s hard to gauge.
The 2000s were about as homophobic as the 90s, 80s, 70s, etc. Everything was just more out of the closet then.